Virginia Vigliar: I'm really thrilled to be joined today by Max Dashu, the founder of the Suppressed Histories Archives. Since 1970, she has been researching and documenting women's history on a global scale, from ancient times to today. Max has spent decades uncovering the suppressed histories of women, witches, and spiritual traditions across cultures, with a deep understanding of oral traditions, historical texts, and archaeology. Her work brings to life long-forgotten spiritual teachings and practices. She’s an expert in iconography and matriarchal cultures, exploring the stories of medicine, women, witches, and powerful female figures. Max has authored several books and built a collection of over 50,000 images, many of which are featured in her course. Her work is incredibly deep and integral. You can find more about her work on our website or visit her site at suppressedhistories.com.
Max Dashu: Thank you, Virginia. It’s an honor to be here.
Virginia Vigliar: Max, I wanted to begin by getting us all on the same page. Could you share a little about the practitioners we’re going to discuss today? Who exactly was the witch?
Max Dashu: Yes, this is always the big question: What is a witch? We’re dealing with over a thousand years of persecution, during which pagan diviners, seers, priestesses, healers, herbalists, and dreamers were systematically repressed, demonized, persecuted, and often executed. The "burning times" was a cultural reformation that radically transformed European society, especially the role and standing of women. Reclaiming the identity of the witch has been a central concern of mine for more than half a century.
I’ll be sharing some visuals from my research to help explain, as it’s easier for me to show you. Let me start with this Anglo-Saxon text from almost 1,000 years ago. It features the word Swan Tatcha (Old English) that was used by a priest in England. This monk was translating a Latin penitential manual that condemned pagan practices. In this text, he mentions that pagan offerings were being made to Earth, trees, and wells, but then adds an editorial note: “Swa, we can teach it as the witches teach.” This suggests that even the church acknowledged that witches were seen as spiritual teachers, not harm-doers as they were often portrayed. The witches were revering the Earth and nature, teaching about the reverence for life.
This was one of the most common titles for witches across Europe. I’ll also show you some Old English words, like libester, which translates to “medicine woman,” or “a woman who works with vital power.” The words lib and lib craft are associated with life force and vitality. We also have words like Wirt gelstra in Old English, which means “herb chanter” – a woman who chants over herbs, a common practice among these witches.
There were numerous other names for witches, all of which reflect their role as healers and seers. For example, Galdra Kona in Old Norse means “chanting woman,” and in Polish and Belarusian, Shep tuja means “a woman who whispers.” These names reflect how witches were often seen as women who chanted incantations, particularly over herbs.
Virginia Vigliar: Thank you, Max. I’m really impressed by your ability to pronounce these ancient terms. It feels like you’re a local in each of these languages, especially when you speak Spanish!
Max Dashu: Oh, thank you, Virginia. Yes, I do speak Spanish – I guess it helps with understanding some of these linguistic connections.
Virginia Vigliar: Fair enough! You mentioned mugwort earlier, along with chanting and incantations. Can you tell us more about other sacred plants used by these women and how they were used?
Max Dashu: Yes, and this will be covered in detail in Module Three of the course. Mugwort was one of the most revered plants in Europe, and there were actually nine herbs celebrated on Midsummer’s Eve. This festival marked the height of the sun, the longest day, and the shortest night. People would gather these herbs ritually, including St. John’s wort, Yarrow, and, of course, mugwort. In many places across Europe, people would make garlands from these herbs, wear them, and dance around bonfires.
St. John’s wort is particularly interesting because it’s both a medicinal herb and a spiritual symbol. It was used in a healing oil that can heal tissue better than almost anything else. But mugwort was used for more than healing; it was seen as a protective herb. The Russians called it Kupala and used it in rituals to bless homes and people, while also honoring the plant's sacred nature.
There were variations of this practice across Europe, but it was widely held that these nine herbs could protect against illness, evil spirits, and negative energies. After Midsummer’s Eve, people would burn the old garlands in the bonfire, symbolizing the release of these negative influences, and then gather a fresh set of herbs for the next year.
Virginia Vigliar: That’s fascinating. What I also find really intriguing is the connection between these ancient traditions and modern practices. How can we respect this wisdom and even apply it today, especially as witchcraft and rituals evolve but sometimes lose touch with their roots?
Max Dashu: Yes, this is very important. The respect for local sourcing and the honoring of the plant spirits was integral to the practices. These traditions are not just about the herbs themselves but about building a relationship with the natural world. Just like indigenous traditions around the world, there was deep respect for the plants, their spirits, and the cycles of nature. Many cultures had specific times and rituals for gathering plants, often tied to lunar phases, seasons, and festivals. The respect for the plants was also shown in the way they were gathered—usually in silence, with offerings to the earth, and addressed with gratitude.
Virginia Vigliar: That’s such an important point. It’s fascinating how these traditions, rooted in reverence for nature and the local environment, have been preserved despite centuries of repression. Your work really brings all of this back to the forefront, creating a bridge between the old and the new.
Max Dashu: Yes, that’s the essence of it. This wisdom is passed down through generations, often through oral traditions and personal experiences with the plants. It’s about creating a relationship—not just using the herbs for their physical properties, but connecting with them on a deeper, energetic level. This is something that has always been integral to human survival, and it's crucial that we continue to honor and protect this knowledge.
Virginia Vigliar: Thank you, Max. It’s truly inspiring to hear you speak about this. I think your work not only uncovers a forgotten history but also helps us reconnect with a tradition that is so deeply embedded in our collective roots.
Max Dashu: Thank you, Virginia. I’m glad to be able to share it with you all. There’s so much more to explore in this area, and I’m looking forward to diving deeper into it in the course.
Virginia Vigliar: There’s a renewal happening. While we may never fully recover all the traditions of our ancestors — which are our birthright — we can reconnect with the roots from which that wisdom sprang. We can reawaken the sources of that knowledge, remembering where our ancestors first gained it.
Max Dashu: Exactly. And, you know, all of us come from different heritages. We live in a world shaped by a racialized caste society, globally, with white domination and European colonialism being the norm for centuries. However, whiteness itself is an imperial and colonial construct. Even if you’re of Italian descent, for instance, you may have mixtures in your ancestry — Dutch, Russian, or Slavic backgrounds. These are rich heritages, some of the last in Europe to be colonized and Christianized.
What we can do is renew ourselves through these ancestral cultures. We have a foundation to stand on, something we can gather from and share with others. But there’s an important point to understand when it comes to sharing traditions. If it's not your tradition, you must be invited in. You can't just take indigenous ways and claim them for yourself, like teaching others how to use a sweat lodge. That’s a violation of the knowledge. You participate only if you're invited in.
So, it’s crucial for women of European descent to find an authentic cultural root to stand upon. Even though it may not look like what we had before, it’s essential for us to reclaim what’s ours. We're now standing in a circle with women from all sorts of cultural backgrounds from around the globe, but we do have something unique to bring to the table.
Virginia Vigliar: I completely agree with you. One of the most impactful conversations I’ve had was with an Indigenous woman from Guatemala. At the start of our conversation, we were discussing colonial times, and she said, “When I began my political and activist work, the first thing I did was research Europe — who these people were who came to colonize our lands.” She told me that these colonizers were erasing women’s history. It was a femicidal society that came to their land. She looked me in the eyes and said, “And I think white women have forgotten this. Western women have forgotten this.”
When you speak of standing on this firm root, something deep within me feels awakened. It feels so important. And I think what you said about not appropriating other traditions is critical. There’s a root, and I believe that’s the real work that needs to be done. That said, I’d love to hear more about how you approach your research into this historical reality. Specifically, what can you tell us about the archaeological and written evidence regarding magical tools — like cauldrons and wands? I’m really curious to hear more about that.
Max Dashu: You know, we’re all familiar with the fairy tales, right? The ones featuring witches and magical symbols. Even in cartoons, you see witches with crystal balls, and of course, the witch’s cauldron — "Double, double, toil and trouble" in Macbeth. These are classic images, but they often seem like stereotypes. I actually created a video analyzing modern depictions of witches, looking closely at these stereotypes. But as I researched, I discovered that there’s archaeological evidence behind these symbols, especially in places like Scandinavia.
For example, wands — which are essentially staffs made of wood — have been found in Viking burial sites in Sweden and Norway. These wands, used by seers (or vila), were not just ordinary staffs. The vila was a ceremonial staff, used for trance or spiritual purposes. In fact, many of these staffs found in burials were made of metal, shaped like a distaff, which was a spindle used for spinning flax. Spinning itself was considered a magical and creative act in Norse culture and across much of Europe. Women are often depicted in the Norse sagas using spinning to make magic — one woman, for instance, used spinning to make her son invisible to her enemies.
These magical staffs, or sad staff, have been uncovered in several burial sites, including a burial in Veka, Norway, where a woman was buried in a position as though astride a broomstick — a fascinating connection between the Norse world and other traditions of shamans riding horse-headed staffs in Siberian cultures.
We also see these staffs in ancient rock art, and ancient snake-shaped staffs found in Finland, dating back 6,000 years. The symbolism connects across cultures. In fact, the images in fairy tales — like witches on broomsticks or the fairy tale wands — are based on cultural memory. They come from somewhere real.
And then there’s the crystal ball. This iconic tool, often linked to Romani fortune tellers, is part of a much wider European tradition of scrying — gazing into objects like crystal balls or the waters of streams to gain psychic insights. Audrey Meany’s research in England revealed that women in early medieval burials often had crystal balls hanging from their belts, alongside other items like amulets. This wasn’t a new-age fantasy. In fact, these crystal balls were seen as part of everyday ceremonial practices and divination tools, used to ask questions or get answers. The tradition of using a sieve as a pendulum, swinging it to get yes or no answers, is also rooted in this culture.
Now, turning to the cauldron — especially the cauldron of renewal — there are traditions in the Celtic world, notably the Irish myths about cauldrons of immortality. In the Welsh epic, the cauldron of Ceridwen is central, where she brews a potion for immortality. The cauldron itself symbolizes renewal, life, and death. Women in the Celtic tradition were seen as the primary knowledge keepers of these magical tools. This isn’t just myth; there are written accounts of women performing acts of healing, shape-shifting, weather-making, and foretelling the future. These practices, recognized in the early days, have been demonized over time, but we must remember that these women were powerful and respected.
Virginia Vigliar: Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I could listen to you for hours, and I’m so excited for the course. I know it’s going to be amazing. We have only ten minutes left, and I want to ask a few questions from the chat. I’ll read them out without opening the mic.
First question: Max, have you done much work with Gaelic charms or incantations, or the witchcraft traditions of the Gaelic world?
Max Dashu: Yes, definitely! I have Irish, Scottish, and Welsh heritage, among many other things. One of the best sources on this is Carmina Gadelica, by Alexander Carmichael, which is a vast collection of Gaelic charms and incantations. Many of these incantations are for invoking gods like Brigid, or to honor the new moon, and they’re steeped in rich traditions. I’ve actually memorized some of them. For example, there's a beautiful poem about the Cailleach, the old woman of the mountain, connected to the spirit of the deer and ancient ways of the land. These poems and songs were used not just for rituals, but as memory aids, passed down through generations.
Virginia Vigliar: That’s beautiful. I’m sure many people in the chat would love to learn more about this, and you’ll have the chance to share more in the course.
I also have a lovely question here from Rachel: “How can we reconnect with the root when so many plants are extinct or under real threat of extinction?” What are your thoughts on this?
Max Dashu: I think the answer lies in defending and protecting them. Growing them, caring for their habitats, and ensuring that the plants are allowed to thrive. That’s part of respecting the plant’s soul. It’s about relationality — we must be in relationship with these plants, just as our ancestors were.
Virginia Vigliar: Absolutely. Gardening really is a revolutionary practice. And Rachel also asked: "Do you think incantations served as an educational tool for passing on ecological knowledge about plants?"
Max Dashu: Yes, absolutely. Incantations are memory devices. When you put a chant or rhyme to something, it makes it easier to remember. This is a tradition that spans across cultures — from the genealogists of the Maori to the Sanskrit sages. Chants help people remember important knowledge, and in the case of these incantations, they often contained information about medicinal plants, their uses, and ecological practices. It’s a holistic way of passing down knowledge.
Virginia Vigliar: Thank you, Max. I think we have time for just one more question before we wrap up. There’s a question about witchcraft persecution and the church’s role. Do you think witchcraft was linked to women’s healing knowledge, and how did this lead to persecution?
Max Dashu: Yes, absolutely. Women’s knowledge of healing herbs, divination, and spiritual practices was seen as a threat to the established order. The church and the ruling powers worked to demonize these practices, especially during the Inquisition. We see this clearly in the witch hunts — a way of silencing women’s power by labeling it as dangerous. But we must look back at the roots of these traditions, before the demonization, to understand their true value.
Virginia Vigliar: Thank you so much, Max. Your insights are invaluable, and I know everyone here has learned so much. We’ll be sending out a discount for the course, as well as a recording of this webinar, so you can revisit these conversations.
Max Dashu: Thank you, Virginia! And thank you all for being here. It’s been such an honor to share this with you.
Virginia Vigliar: Take care, everyone, and we hope to see you in the course!
