Virginia Vigliar Thank you. Thank you so much. Sophie has introduced the topic really well, so I’ll just introduce Chiara and Sylvia. Sylvia is a novelist, mythology scholar, ancient history expert, and a certified animal tracker. Her work over the last 12 years—both fiction and nonfiction—focuses on myth, ecology, feminism, and bioregionalism. It's about broadening our human stories to include the voices of the living land. She’s the author of the collections The Venus Year and Our Lady of the Dark Country, two novels for young readers, The Wild Folk and The Wild Folk Rising, and the post-apocalyptic Folk Tay cycle, Tatter Demallion. Chiara was the program curator for Boom Festival’s cultural area, the Liminal Village, from 2010 to 2023. In 2015 and 2016, she also set up and curated the first cultural area at Fusion Festival in Germany. She recently co-curated an anthology called Psychedelic Mysteries of the Feminine, which explores the intersection between the feminine principle and altered states of consciousness. She’s currently a PhD candidate at the California Institute of Integral Studies, studying philosophy, cosmology, and consciousness. She lives between Italy and Portugal and expresses her love for music by DJing under the name Clandestina. So without further ado, let’s welcome our amazing speakers, and I’ll stop talking now.
Chiara Baldini Hello, everyone. Hello to the friends, to the new people, to the students who may be returning after participating in one of our courses. I also want to thank Virginia and Advaya for hosting our courses and this conversation. I’d like to start with a disclaimer. Many of us—whether we live in the United States or not—are still processing the results of the elections there, and this is affecting all of us in one way or another. So we show up as best as we can, with all the confusion and disorientation, but also with a wish to do something about what’s going on. This webinar is a response to the current state of affairs. I also want to mention that I have a strong cold, and Sylvia and others on the call are on their periods. We bring all of this—our knowledge, our will to act, our wish to spread knowledge about non-patriarchal cultures—and also our messiness and physiological states. Sylvia, would you like to add something?
Sylvia Linsteadt That was beautifully articulated, Chiara. I just want to add that, despite the disorientation we’re feeling right now, I feel a deeper devotion to this topic and this conversation we’ve been having for the last couple of weeks. The clarity that’s emerging from this conversation feels like a deepening strength and commitment to what we’re discussing now. So, despite the head colds and menstrual cycles, I feel like we are arriving at a very powerful moment.
Chiara Baldini Thank you, Sylvia. I want to share a bit about how Sylvia and I met. We’ve been circling around each other for quite some time, both aware of each other’s work, but we hadn’t actually met in person. I had been reading Sylvia’s novels and listening to her readings for a while, but we didn’t have a chance to connect directly until a few weeks ago. We thought we’d have one call to discuss the webinar, but it ended up being very long and epic. It felt like we were merging our energies and knowledge from different perspectives but on the same topics. Our first call was three hours long, and we didn’t even get to the webinar discussion. We had another call, and it went the same way. It was as if we were putting together pieces of a puzzle, and for the first time, we were seeing this picture emerging. We’re both very excited to be here today, speaking publicly together for the first time, and we hope this will be the start of a long series of collaborations and offerings in the future. This process has been very nourishing, especially in the aftermath of the elections, and we’ve been sending each other voice messages, photos, and poems to support each other. It’s been really special.
Sylvia Lindsteadt I think, once we dive into the material we’re discussing today, people will better understand the excitement of our meeting of minds. I just want to say that it’s thanks to Advaya that this has happened. The context of this learning community has been such a gift, offering a homecoming to our shared approach to history. When working with an exploration of matrilineal or non-patriarchal history, particularly in Europe, it can sometimes feel like you’re working alone. So, meeting someone who shares similar knowledge and passions, and having these conversations where we connect intellectually and spiritually, has been incredibly energizing. It’s a reminder that we’re so much stronger together, especially when we’re diving into the excavation of the feminine and prehistory in Europe. There’s so much power in weaving our threads together.
Chiara Baldini Yes, I love that image of weaving threads. We spoke about how this webinar is the beginning of something. It’s like planting seeds, and we hope that later, we’ll be able to harvest them. One of the topics that came up in our discussions is the concept of the “mother goddess.” We started to ask, “What if this ‘mother goddess’ was already seen as an ancient mother in the Neolithic?” The idea of gods and goddesses came later, but the Neolithic, with its larger settlements, was already much closer to the way we live today. We’re talking about societies that lived in bigger communities, and this idea of the mother figure was already present. The earliest figurines, for example, come from the Paleolithic period, 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. So, even in the Neolithic, she was seen as a very ancient figure, and it’s possible that she was already perceived as the mother of gods and goddesses later on, like Rhea in Greek times, Isis in Egypt, and Inanna or Ishtar in the Middle East. These later versions of the goddess were more anthropomorphic, but the original idea was connected to something much more ancient.
Sylvia Linsteadt Yes, and the further back we go, the more we see that the ancient mother is not just human. When we think of goddesses in Greek mythology, for example, like Rhea or Hera, we see very human figures. But if we look deeper into Paleolithic cave art, we see human forms that are more integrated with the cave, the animals, and the earth. There's an incredible example of a cave painting in France, where the shape of a cleft in the rock looks like a vulva, and horses are carved emerging from it.
This symbol represents the ancient mother—she’s intertwined with the earth, the animals, and the flow of water, representing life itself. This ancient mother is something that we’ve started to explore in our discussions.
Chiara Baldini Absolutely. I think what’s important to note is that, when we talk about the “mother goddess,” the term can often emphasize biological motherhood, which is an important aspect, but it can also limit our understanding. The ancient mother represents something much broader—she embodies the earth itself, the protection and nurturing of all beings, not just human ones. In the study of history, there’s often a conflation of femininity with biological motherhood, but these early figures were much more complex and symbolized life’s cyclical processes. And we should also mention that the ancient mother was most likely not white, as the concept of whiteness only developed much later. This is an important point, and it’s something I’ve come to realize more recently.
Sylvia Linsteadt Exactly, and this is something we’ve started to talk about in relation to the Goddess movement. There’s a need to reevaluate how we view the goddess and what the modern conception of the goddess movement really represents. Is there a second wave of the Goddess movement? What are its strengths, and what should be rethought? These are all topics we want to explore further, and perhaps we’ll have more conversations with those interested in discussing the Goddess movement and its evolution.
Chiara Baldini Yes, I agree. Let’s save some of these questions for later. Now, maybe we can dive into your course, Sylvia. I didn’t want to know too much about it beforehand because I wanted this to be the first time I hear about it in depth. Could you paint the landscape for us and share what people will explore during the seven weeks of the course?
Sylvia Linsteadt Sure. Just to set the stage, my course is based on the work of the archeologist Maria Gimbutas, who discovered a layer of Neolithic culture beneath the Bronze Age in Europe. She called this culture “Old Europe,” which was a matrilineal, egalitarian society, deeply connected to the earth. Gimbutas found evidence of this culture in the form of female figurines and other artifacts, showing that earlier European cultures had a different way of living and relating to the divine—centered around the feminine and the earth. This discovery was controversial, but recent genetic evidence supports her theory of a violent clash between the patriarchal Indo-European people and the egalitarian cultures of Old Europe. In my course, we explore different aspects of Old Europe’s sacred culture, such as the sacred hearth, the bear as an ancestral mother, and the sacredness of water and wells. I trace these themes through mythology, folklore, and archaeological evidence to show how these ancient beliefs still resonate in Europe today.
Chiara Baldini Yeah, it sounds really interesting. Really, really interesting. I just want to mention that we've been talking about non-patriarchal and pre-patriarchal societies, and there are some slight differences in the terms we use. When we say "pre-patriarchal," it sometimes suggests from an evolutionary perspective that it’s less developed or evolved than patriarchy, that it’s somehow a precursor to something more advanced. But that’s not how we should understand these societies. I tend to use "non-patriarchal" more often. Also, we’ve been careful not to mention matriarchy. That term has become so loaded over time and has been vilified in many ways, including by the same researchers studying these cultures. There’s a lot of problematic framing around how these non-patriarchal cultures were studied.
We don’t want to idealize these societies or turn them into utopian fantasies where everything is perfect, and people live in harmony.
These cultures were human, just like us, and they had the full range of human experiences. What’s important, though, is that they were organized according to different values. From what you were saying, I think those values really start to emerge.
Could you speak a bit more about the different values that began to surface in these societies?
Sylvia Lindteadt Yes, I think it’s important to speak to what you just brought up about values because that’s fundamental to what we’re hoping to orient towards. In our conversations, we’re trying to understand how we can bring forward the truths about our heritage and history to create a more just world. The values that we pull forward are like gifts in a fairy tale — gifts that come from the old wisdom to help us heal and grow.
As I was creating these seven lectures, even though I was familiar with the material, what really came forward was how deeply connected these early societies were to the land, and the sense of guardianship and stewardship that emerges in the stories and evidence. For example, the myth of the bear mother in the circumpolar north. The story of a woman who marries a bear is part of a tradition that spans from North America to Northern Europe, around Siberia, and even into ancient Greece.
In these early stories, there’s this interesting aspect where the bear husband sacrifices himself to protect the relationship with the woman’s brothers. This suggests a matrilineal law that respects the sacred relationship between brothers and sisters. It’s a beautiful example of reciprocity and respect for the natural world. In these traditions, women are often the guardians of the forest and animals. We can see this idea in cultures like the Sami people, who still hold rituals respecting the sovereignty of women and the forest. Artemis, in Greek mythology, is another example of this ancient wisdom — fiercely protecting the wild spaces and ensuring balance in nature.
Chiara Baldini Yes, there’s this concept of reciprocity, of mutually beneficial relationships. These stories point to that — a system where the natural world and human relationships are in balance. Over the centuries, we’ve betrayed this principle, focusing only on what benefits us, often just a few of us, not even the collective human family. Rediscovering these principles, and feeling again what it was like to live according to these laws, is so powerful. When you encode this wisdom into a story, like the one you just told, children grow up with the understanding of how things should be done. That’s incredibly potent.
Sylvia Lindteadt Yes, I think that’s why these stories are so important. They carry the principles of balance and reciprocity across generations. Speaking of balance, one of the things I looked at in my course on sacred waters is the mythology of Tethys, the pre-Olympian Greek goddess who represents the world-encircling waters. She’s the grandmother of water, bringing up springs from the deep earth, nourishing all life.
I realized that many of the rivers in Europe are named after early goddesses — the Danube is named after Danu, for example. This connection to water and the sovereignty of women over the land is so strong, especially in the Celtic regions. In Ireland, Wales, and pre-Roman Britain, there’s the concept of the sovereignty goddess, who is the guardian of the waters. These goddesses held the power to grant kingship, and the kings had to respect them and the land’s laws. If the land suffered, the ruler would be removed. This idea of political power being connected to the health of the land and water is something we’ve lost.
Chiara Baldini Yes, and I think we can all feel that something is wrong with the way we’re living now. When we hear these stories, something clicks, and it feels right. The concept of flow — water, life force — it’s all interconnected. The name Rhea, for instance, means "flow" and "ease," and she’s associated with the cycles of water, the cycles of the body, like menstruation, milk, birth waters — both inner and outer waters need to be in balance.
That’s the ancient wisdom that kept people grounded, connected to the cycles of the earth, the moon, and the stars. But we’ve lost touch with that. We’ve broken these agreements, and the land and water are suffering as a result.
Sylvia Lindteadt Yes, absolutely. This kind of knowledge — about cycles, reciprocity, balance — is essential for healing the trauma that’s been building up for centuries, especially with colonization and Christianization. These ecstatic rituals and sacred practices were part of a larger system of healing and transformation. The backup of trauma we’re dealing with now is deeply rooted, and I think retelling these stories and connecting with the old wisdom is a way to heal and create transformation.
Chiara Baldini Exactly. And by healing our own wounds, we can better understand the wounds of other cultures and peoples. That’s the path forward: creating alliances across cultures, genders, and ethnicities to face the challenges we have now.
Sylvia Lindteadt Yes, these connections are so needed. And in the course, I hope to create space for these kinds of conversations and bring in different perspectives, so we can all share our knowledge and learn together.
Chiara Baldini Yes, and in the courses, there’s more space for discussion and questions. I always learn so much from students too — everyone brings their own knowledge and experiences. It’s a space for collective learning.
Sylvia Lindteadt One of the books that was mentioned earlier, The Immortality Key, is about the use of psychotropic substances in ancient cultures, particularly in the Mediterranean. It’s an interesting read, but there’s a Western-centric bias in it that I struggle with. The idea that Europe was the birthplace of this kind of knowledge, for example, is problematic. Still, the research is valuable.
Chiara Baldini Yes, and The Flower and the Wand is another great book I recommend. It explores the role of women as guardians of these traditions. There’s also The Myth of the Goddess by Bertha and Jules Cashford, which is an excellent overview of goddess mythology across different cultures.
Sylvia Lindteadt And also, The Chalice and the Blade by Riane Eisler, which talks about partnership societies versus dominator societies. This book was fundamental in helping me understand the difference between cultures that nurture life versus those that take life. The world we live in today, where the strongest nation is the one with the biggest army, is a direct result of a culture that worships the power to take life.
Chiara Baldini Yes, that’s still relevant today. And in terms of Minoan Crete, I’m planning a course in the spring to go deeper into the spirituality, religion, and politics of this fascinating society, which was likely non-patriarchal. Stay tuned for that!
Sylvia Lindteadt I can’t wait for that!
Chiara Baldini Thank you, everyone, for being here. I hope to see you in the course or at other events. Please follow us on Instagram for updates.
Sylvia Lindteadt Thank you so much! Looking forward to seeing you all in the course.
